You viewed the first half of a very provocative film which attempts to explain the conflict between the Israeli and Palestinian governments. Our question to consider for this post: Who is the intruder and who is the original inhabitant? Who can legitimately lay claim to the land where Israel is located? Is Israel an occupation force? Are the Palestinians correct in saying that they are fighting a war of occupation and independence?
Tip: Remember, you will be graded based upon two criteria: First, your original response to the questions above. Second, you will need to read others posts and respond to their post.
This is just ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteMaybe this isn't exactly going along with the question, but really. How many people have died over this land? How many MORE will die? When will people realize killing each other isn't the answer?
Anyway, if I have to take sides on this it seems to me that the land belongs rightfully to the Palestinians-- ONLY because they had it for so long and were the last ones to really "own" it, from before WWI. Otherwise, it is rather difficult to say who legitimately owns it since Christianity, Judaism AND Islam can all claim it in their religion.
I would not say that Israel is an occupation force. The Israelis need a place to live (why can't the Palestinians shove over a tiny bit, make some room? So frustrating).
This is definitely not a war of independence. When I think of wars of independence, like the American Revolution, I think of it with a positive connotation. Great Britain was taking advantage of America, sucking us dry; so we retaliated, gaining freedom and confidence in ourselves.
In this conflict, the Israelis are not forcing anything on the Palestinians. They just want to live in a certain territory. That's all.
"There are causes worth dying for but none worth killing for."
-Albert Camus
Well I understand that it was the Palestinians land before the state of Israel was made. But I feel like that way too many Arabs see the Israelites as these foreign invaders trying to change their way of life in the middle east and to take over Jerusalumn. There are many reasons why Israel is a jewish state and has not fallen to a differnt and new radical government. 1, the British were actually the real invaders because they were the ones who stormed in took the country by force and made it their colony. With the U.Ns consent they made it a Jewish state for the Jews of WW2 and that shouldve been respected by the Palestinians. 2, If u look at wars that involve occuping nations (vietknam, American revoluiton) you would realize that the occupying nations would have been driven away a long time ago because the occupied nation would fight to the death to protect thier land and this conflict shows that the Israels are defintley not the Invaders and that they believe that Israel is their home land , and thats why its so difficult to say who Israel really belongs too. . The Only way the conflict can be solved is if the Islam world and the Israel world respect each other as nations and live peacful or they just destroy each other until neither are left. There is no way that only one can stay in the middle east. Neither side is prepared to give up this land because it means their religous existence. It will be like the US with the Soviets in the cold war. Either tensions would have risen and both countries would destroy each other, or no direct fighting would happen and the two super powers would coexist peacfully. Luckily we picked option 2 and avoided nuclear holocaust, but whats to say that Palenstine and Israel will pick option 2?
ReplyDeleteI agree with espi. This conflict is not a war of Indepence but instead a war of religious beliefs. It will never stop because neither nations are going to give up what they beleive in and that this conflict may never end.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the original inhabitants of Israel are the Jewish people, than other people started populating the land. I feel that the Palistinians can legitimetly lay claim to the land where Israel is located.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that we can really decide who is the intruder and who is the native inhabitant. One side can argue that the Palestinians have been the native inhabitants, they've lived on the land through various rulers (such as the Ottoman Empire). On the other hand, Jewish peoples have been living on the land since the beginning of their religion, which was centuries before AD. I think that this entire situation could have been handled much better - that the way the British could have divided the land better or even reached some sort of agreement. I feel as though both groups of people have a legitimate claim to the land, and I think that they should have to share it. But some groups seem to be so intolerant of each other that they won't even begin to compromise for peace. I agree with Espi and Dan in that this war isn't truly one over territory, but over religious beliefs. Until we address that situation (and people understand and respect the beliefs of others) then it doesn't matter what we do with the territory, because it's not the base issue.
ReplyDeleteI feel like both sides have a right to call it their land. i feel for the Palestinians because the have been there for generations and to be forced into making Israel. i also feel for the Israelites because they have been persecuted for so long that they deserve a safe haven for them to go to. I feel like their is a way to coexist but both sides are being unreasonable in how they cant find peace.
ReplyDeleteI have always been taught that Israel is for Jewish people and that's it. And of course, I'm going to stand behind that. However, I don't want people to think I'm ignorant. I understand what the Palestinians are going through and despite the fact that I am Jewish and am supposed to have an obligation to back my people up, I really think that Israelis and Palestinians should be able to live peacefully together. However, I know this isn't possible. Both are a proud people that are not willing to give up what they believe in. However, I do believe that the Palestinians are being overly hostile (for obvious reasons) while the Israelis are just trying to constantly defend themselves. Even if I was not Jewish, I would look at the situation and see that all the Palestinians are trying to do to "solve" the situation is gain attention by suicide bombings and violence, while Israel is continually attempting to create a peaceful solution. Also, the press tends to only point out when Israel does something that seems even remotely hostile (like the flotilla issue over the summer), and never point out that all they are trying to defend themselves. Israel has and never will be on the offense. Jews and Israelis alike have learned that they've always needed to be on the defense because persecution has unfortunately become routine.
ReplyDeleteIn addition, I think it is necessary to point out that another conflict in this issue is that while Israel is small, people don't realize that this dilemma is hindered even more due to Israel's geography. Over half of the country is desert that has yet to be urbanized. It is difficult to "divide up" the land or share it due to its extremely small size.
While Espi brings up many good points about this issue (especially the quote she mentioned: "There are causes worth dying for but none worth killing for."
-Albert Camus), the one thing I disagree about in her post is that the Palestinians solely deserve the land. I think both peoples deserve to live on the land however because while Palestians lived there for a rather long time, it was not longer than Jews. Jews have lived there from the beginning: since biblical times. However, they were kicked out and persecuted therefore losing the land for such a long time. It wasn't until 1948 that they finally gained back their legitimate homeland.
i feel that both groups of people have a certain legitimacy in claims to the land because of the importance of the region to their religious history, however, the Palestinian people were the most recent group to "own the land." i agree with jacky that the situation was more a cause of the british mandate over the region. had the british or the UN dealt with the situation better by establishing more defined borders or splitting up the land differently, the intensity of the situation could have been averted. the Palestinians were forced to give up the land that they had occupied and lived on for centuries to Israelis, which spawned the enmity between the two peoples. the Israelis have in a sense occupied the area of palestine through military force, but the israelis are in fact trying to create some sense of order from the chaos that they have been put into, like emily said. however, i disagree with emily in that i feel both sides of the situation have been at fault for being overly hostile at times. i also want to comment on emily's point that palestine is only gaining attention by "suicide bombs and violence." while palestinians have been involved in these acts it is not their only goal. palsetine has also been on the political sphere trying to come up with a solution, but because israel is militarily superior and occupying greater and greater lands of palestine, the palestinian government can only do so much.
ReplyDeleteas for palestinians saying that they are fighting a war of occupation independence, i do feel that they have been somewhat occupied by israel but this is because of their intolerance towards the beliefs of jewish peoples. had the palestinian goverment approached the situation differently the palestinians would not be in this situation. both sides are religiously intolerant and this intolerance is a cause of much of the violence that occurs.
In this type of situation, I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer. There is no side of the argument that has a more legitimate claim to the land than the other; the answers to these are all influenced by personal opinion. Personally, I believe that Israel has more rights to the land, but I understand the Palestinian’s strife if you take into consideration that they were displaced in the 1940’s and now live in refugee camps. However, the Jews are displaced people as well if you remember the Holocaust and the Spanish Inquisition and other periods in history. Historically, the Jewish people have mentioned settling on the land of Israel in the Torah over 4000 years ago, long before Muhammad and long before the creation of Christianity. It is all opinion when you determine who was there first and who the intruder is.
ReplyDeleteIsrael is definitely not an occupation force. I do not believe that Israel is doing anything wrong when they occupy designated areas of Palestinian land every once and awhile. In most cases, occupation happens as retaliation to a suicide bomber. The fact of the matter is: Palestinians use terrorist/guerilla tactics as an attack, and Israel has no choice but to defend itself.
Looking at it from an American perspective, who would you rather want to own the land: A successful Israeli government, or a group of Palestinian terrorists known as Hamas?
The Palestinians say that their cause is for liberation, but all they ever do is say that they do not want peace, and will not rest until Israel is obliterated and erased from history. Israel wants peace, but does not want to appease the Palestinians by giving them more land, because from there they will only demand more.
I agree with Dan and Espi, neither country is willing to back down on their viewpoints, so we are left with a stalemate. Palestinians are not fighting a war for independence because they are truly not being as oppressed as they continue to claim. Theirs is not a war like the American Revolution because there is no rightful owner and no foreigner, there is so much grey area. Like Dan said, this situation is kind of like the Cold war. Both sides have some occasional outbursts but overall it is a conflict that never seems to end. Israel and Palestine need to find some common ground and have peace talks in order for the situation to get remotely better.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Emily's, "...the one thing I disagree about in her post is that the Palestinians solely deserve the land," I understand what you are saying, how the Jews had it from the beginning. In this case, I really don't know who deserves it, and never really felt that Palestinians deserve it only, or Jews. I believe they should coexist; but how they achieve peace is beyond me. It's not only that they SHOULD coexist; they NEED to. Or else they'll all end up kill each other.
ReplyDeleteNot that this really has to do with anything, but I wonder what would happen if the land was taken away from both of them... THAT would be interesting. Probably frightening, too...
Unfortunately since it is impossible for people of different religions to live in peace amongst each other, they must make some sort of compromise over the land. It would be different if the fight was over resources from the land but it is about way more than that. People are fighting over what their ancestors have come to know and trying to relive what they have lived through including what territories they gained. I believe that the Jews belong in the historic land of Palestine. After all, the claims of the Israelis are officially written in the Old Testament whereas the only proof the Arabs have over territory claims is that they have lived in peace since Biblical times. If this was so, how did the Israelis come into Palestine without any disruption when they first claimed this land? The fight over land didn't occur until years after in some of the first wars over the land. As for the Palestinians saying that this is a war of occupation and independence, I believe this is true. They are trying to show that they are the dominant people of this region. They are trying to show independence and live freely while at the same time they are making a statement to every country in this world. This specific war has lasted for so long that the only thing left to prove is the peoples willpower to keep breaking free and fighting.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jaclyn... there is absolutely no common ground among the Jews and Arabs in terms of religion. Religion is a huge part in these peoples everyday lives so there is no compromise over land that lays sacred to each. The Jews and Arabs share one thing in common and that is they believe something lies within the land of Palestine that holds their religion together and is the basis of it. There may never be peace in Palestine solely because if this reason. There will always be tensions between the Jews and Arabs no matter what.
ReplyDeleteI feel that it is impossible to tell who the original inhabitants of israel is because in the beginning I believe that all religions sprouted off of one idea. So I believe at one time everyone in that area worshipped the same thing and then as time went on each religion started to change and separate into jews, muslims and christians. I do also believe that the British did a terrible job of splitting up the land. In that respect I do agree with Jaclyn.
ReplyDeletei think that what Emily said is true. The Jewish people deserve a homeland, and that area does have specific historical significance. Although this is true, I don't think that it is possible considering the current situation. Look at all of the problems that are currently happening. I think that the fact of the matter is this: The Israelis had to force the Palestinians out of their homes of thousands of years, and I dont think that is right. The Israelis took what is not theirs and placed hardships on the Palestinians.
ReplyDeleteSince this is not the case, I think that they should just learn to live together.
I agree with the notion the Jewish people deserve their own homeland yet i find a simple solution to this problem very troublesome to come by. No matter who actually "deserves" the land, there will always be the issue of the losing parties. All of these groups believe they are entitled so no one will ever b e able to decide definitively.
ReplyDeleteI would have to begin by supporting Palestine for the mere fact that they were there first, were not asked when deciding on this new land of Israel, and were pretty much taken over without say. I'm also completely against nationalism. Having lived in two countries is an experience which has led me to see how strange and bizarre the notion of different nations and separating fellow human beings from each other is. I don't see why they could not have just migrated to Palestine, and enforced the issue of a holy land specifically for the Jewish people. I do not generally support any religion, seeing as to me if there is a God, there is no right or wrong way to worship Him in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of nowadays, I find that violence from either side is absolutely ridiculous. Unless attacked, both sides should refrain from violence. Violence does not solve anything at all, and only causes rage.
Overall though, I believe Talib puts everything I am thinking into words the best to summarize my opinion even though I tend to lean towards the Palestinian side.
I honestly cannot decide on a side to be on although I strongly believe that the Hamas organization is unneccessarily violent towards other religions and i think that they should be punished for that. The funny part of this whole conflict though is the fact that all three main religions all originated in the same place yet they are so different from each other and so enraged at the fact that many different stories that interfere with each other happened at the same place. These people should be at peace with each other for having such a thing in common yet they are stupid enough to be killing the innocent bystanders of their hatred. This conflict aggravates me too Espi.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Stacy to the idea that there won't be a right or a wrong answer but there will always be a consequence to any decision. The religions also do not define right or wrong either. This is what makes this decision so difficult and so stressful because if we let everything go more and more innocent people will die. How long is the rest of the world going to be able to tolerate that?
ReplyDeleteI think that this whole situation has gone way to far. So many people are dying, and nothing is getting resolved. I understand both sides in a sense that they both want land, but I feel like killing people is not the answer. I think that both sides should learn to get along.
ReplyDeleteAll of the religions claim it as there land and no matter what there will always be a losing side and it will always be a conflict because all the religions feel that they should own all the land.
ReplyDeleteI agree with brittany and colin because its more than just a war it is very personal and there will always be a loser who will try to win
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree with Espi in saying that the land rightfully belongs to the Palestinians seeing as they have lived there the longest. And that their war is not one seeking independence but a war of land greed.
ReplyDeleteI believe that both the Israelis and Palestinians should be able to live together, divide the land up equally. However I know this is an impossible task, both groups have strong reason to fight for their land. Palestinians have been the native inhabitants and the Jewish peoples have been living on the land since the beginning of their religion. I'm not really sure how to decide who's land it rightfully is, both groups have valid reason to believe the land is theirs. The conflict will not be resolved unless someone decides to back down, which unfortunately I don't see happening. The reality is both groups are being selfish and neither one of them will give up until they get what they want.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Eric:
This war isn't truly one over territory, but over religious beliefs. The war wont stop because both religious groups are intolerant to each other.
the conflict is an extrememly hard case and i'm not sure it will ever be sovled, most of the citizens want to have peace but there will always be extremists on both sides causeing more violence always, i am a little biast though and will side with the israelis but i do believe they both have a right to live there and only wish they could live in peace together but i don't believe it will happen.
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